Protecting the Unborn
In a thought-provoking interview with Molly Smith on From The Median, Solidarity HealthShare’s Chief Medical Officer Dr. John Oertle discusses the ongoing struggle about protecting the unborn in hospitals across the country as abortion continues to be an easier path to choose for many doctors.
Interview Audio
Interview Transcript
Announcer (00:02):
Welcome to From the Median, a daily report from the frontline of the Pro-Life movement, discussing two worldviews that are driving our culture in opposite directions. From the Median asks, which side of the road are you on? What direction do you want our culture to go? Tune in as we plan the route that takes us back to the culture of life. And now your host, Molly Smith.
Molly Smith (00:24):
Welcome back. I am Molly Smith, your host. I want to remind you all that our program is available for download. You can do so by going to our website fromthemedian.org Listeners, as always, thank you so much for joining us and again, another brand new guest joining us, somebody who is with a long time supporter of ours and somebody who we support very, very, I want to say almost fiercely and vehemently because we believe so much in what this company does. And you will have heard their ads on our radio program all the time. And of course, I’m talking about Solidarity Healthshare. Solidarity is making healthcare an ethical, affordable, and truly comprehensive. So I love this organization. I think what they’re doing is unbelievable. Particularly rising healthcare costs have affected the burden of many families across the country. That’s why Solidarity HealthShare offers a refreshing, affordable alternative with their customized programs.
(01:21):
You have the freedom to choose the membership that suits your unique needs and say goodbye to sky high premiums and hello to budget friendly opinions that don’t compromise on quality. And joining us right now is none other than their medical expert here. So Dr. John Oertle is the leading expert in advanced precision and personalized medicine. He is the Chief Medical Officer at Solidarity HealthShare. Such an honor to have him on the program with us. He is well published in the areas of cancer genomics, immunotherapy. I hope I’ve got that right, Dr. John and chronic Lyme disease. Dr. Oertle graduated with honors from Arizona State University with his Bachelor’s of Science in Psychology and graduated with honors from Sonoran University. Is that I you pronounce it, John?
Dr. John Oertle (02:09):
Correct, Correct.
Molly Smith (02:10):
There you go. See, I’m getting all kinds of things so often the names that are here in North America are so new to me, even though I’ve been here forever and ever and ever. I sometimes come across these names that it’s like, oh my goodness, how do we say that one? So it’s wonderful to have you here, John. I’m so honestly honored to have you on the program with us. Thank you for joining us.
Dr. John Oertle (02:29):
Oh, Molly, the pleasure is all mine. It’s great to be able to be joining you this morning.
Molly Smith (02:33):
Absolutely. So you are the medical officer for Solidarity HealthShare. And of course folks go to our website. You will find the link to Solidarity HealthShare right there on the website. And I know that you will be thrilled with who they are, what they are, what they do, how they work with you, how this is a family approach. It’s just wonderful. It’s an absolutely wonderful organization. So make sure you go there. But one of the things that I, you’ve just very recently written an article that was published in National Review and it’s called, and it’s sort of write down our alley, which is to do with the unborn child. And the title of the article is called Hospitals Are Discriminating Against the Most Vulnerable Patients. And again, it was written by Dr. John Oertle. And I want you to just unpack why did you write this article, Dr. John?
Dr. John Oertle (03:36):
Now? Thank you. Well, for me, so I am, I’m the Chief Medical Officer of Solidarity and we’ve been doing healthcare sharing for a while now as far as this goes, being able to make sure that healthcare is affordable and also ethical and that we’re actually sharing into dollars that are actually ethical. But back a couple of years ago, I was actually on my way back from the Catholic Medical Association conference in Orlando, and my wife was pregnant at the time. And the time that I actually flew back my wife, her water broke. And so as a result of her water breaking, we ended up rushing into the emergency room. And obviously I have a medical background, but to be able to be engaged with the doctors and the team and the staff of being able to treat my, not just my wife with the utmost dignity, but my baby with the utmost dignity and respect and love and care, and being able to go and deep dive into the actual research and call my friends of neonatologists and Catholics and the American College of Pediatrics and being able to actually make sure that we were on the right track when it came to the decisions that we were making for my wife and my unborn son.
(04:48):
And there was a lot of miracles that went on throughout that process. A lot of miracles. We were in the hospital, we ended up being my wife. We ended up maintaining her pregnancy for six weeks and then my baby was born
Molly Smith (04:59):
Oh, wow- wonderful.
Dr. John Oertle (05:00):
Which was just a miracle in and of itself because over 90% of the moms that have water breaking early will deliver within the first week. And so when we were able to actually deliver and have my baby be born, it just brought in so many these implications that are going on in hospitals nationwide. One that we were able to have my baby be born and actually be well-treated. But this is because I knew people and I knew that what was the best in medical research that was out there and a life supporting advocacy to be able to make sure my son was being supported, my wife was being supported, and that true consent was occurring. And what I’ve understood, and this is where I became an expert in the world of premature delivery. And so what I started looking at though is how many times mom and dads because of hospital policies or resuscitation rights are not being supported with fully informed consent to be able to actually understand that you’re not looked to be a monster just because a mom and dad want to be able to try to able to save their children when it comes to these difficult diseases or chromosomal abnormalities being diagnosed in utero or if their babies are born with a threatened pregnancy.
(06:23):
My son was early at that age of edge of viability is what my article’s about. And so really raising awareness about that. There’s actually really good data when you’re able to fight for life for these children who are being threatened at that edge of viability, which is usually around 24 weeks gestation is where that edge is right now of people that are, it’s very dangerous babies being born at that edge and they can still pass away, but there’s good data to show that if you fight for their lives and are able to give the mom the treatment necessary and baby treatment necessary to try to save their life, that you can actually save a lot of these babies’ lives and can actually turn out very well for the child and the mom. And it’s a difficult situation, but it’s also one that it demands the ability of treating both with dignity.
Molly Smith (07:19):
-both patients-
Dr. John Oertle (07:20):
Exactly. And the best medicine that’s actually out there and giving mom and dads options with people that are able to treat both baby and mom with the utmost respect and dignity so that they can make the decisions that are necessary, albeit very difficult decisions. (Absolutely.) But still very important to be able to have good knowledge to be able to make those decisions.
Molly Smith (07:41):
Your article sort of focuses on to some extent, to a large extent, but then also gives some wonderful positive points as well. But it’s focusing on the fact that the way we are treating this whole model of trying to save the child in the womb, treating that child as a patient has changed and that there is almost like a political agenda or a cultural view. I think as you put it, persuasive cultural view that fails, and I’m reading directly from your article, it says that far too often, the obstetricians and et cetera, and the experts are saying, okay, well you’re having a difficult pregnancy, we’re not going to worry about that because after all, let’s just get rid of this child and we all be fine. You have no idea what this may entail in the future. So they don’t actually make every effort that they can. And you say that there is a pervasive cultural view that fails to recognize the inherent dignity of the children or that they deserve every effort and resources to take to treat them. Wow. I mean, when I read that I was like, wow. And you’re right. I mean, I think you’re absolutely right.
Dr. John Oertle (09:04):
Well, what’s really interesting is that oftentimes, one, if parents are even given these options, because many times they’re not because of this pervasive cultural view of I’m just not even going to try to fight and give those options to parents to be able to decide on because they think that somehow it’s easier on the parents to not even give that as an option and not try to fight and just let the baby die. And if you’re going to just let the baby die, that’s a hundred percent that the baby is going to die. But what the actual data shows is that if you give these lifesaving options with the current technology that exists, again, even if you’re born at that edge of viability, that 24 weeks gestation, you’re still getting about 60% of those children are able to survive.
Molly Smith (09:49):
Oh my goodness.
Dr. John Oertle (09:50):
You’re able to survive. (Wow.) And this is where the other pervasive cultural view is, oh, it’s just too hard and you’re going to have one, it’s increased costs to the medical system, and two, you’re going to suffer some severe complications, primarily neurological complications if you’re born that early and you survive, and we’ve heard this before as far as that somehow dignity is dependent upon who we are as human beings or the suffering. It’s too much suffering. So we might as well just pass. And they actually show that actually that many babies after two years, even if they’re born that early, will have minimal to no neurological defects if they’re just treated with dignity and love and respect and given the support that every human being would need to be able to make sure that they’re given the level of medical care. I give this example that if I was to come down with blocked arteries, if I have blocked arteries in my heart and the hospital said, no, we’re not going to treat you.
(10:50):
Your life isn’t dignified, it’s not worth it. It’s too expensive, but there’s other hospitals that are doing coronary bypass surgeries, then this is where I would want the dignity for me to be able to say. And I think we can all agree that yes, it’s right for doctors to suggest, well, we don’t do this at my hospital, but we can refer you to another hospital or other specialists to be able to get the lifesaving treatment that’s needed. And this is where this is not happening with babies that are being offered this level of care at that edge of viability. And so this to me becomes a moral ethical dilemma that’s going on in our country and people need to know, my reason for this is one, I want to share that the data is out there and that raise the awareness to moms and dads that this is actually an option to fight for the baby. Because if you don’t know, it’s such a difficult situation to be in and if your doctor that you trust is not giving those recommendations, you feel it a bit of a loss and maybe those decisions are not the true decisions that you would really want. You’re feeling captive to the cultural views of the culture of death. And so that’s for me, I want to raise that awareness.
Molly Smith (12:00):
Absolutely. Some of the, tell us a little bit, and I want to confirm what you said. I have a granddaughter, actually my very first granddaughter who was born 26 years ago at 24 and a half weeks. And she is absolutely beautiful and wonderful and fully functioning and fully, I mean, just a wonderful member of the society. (Oh, wonderful.) So you look at, I mean, that was a long 26 years ago that was right at the cusp of when people were doing this, but we praise, thank you, dear God went into a hospital that said, no, we’re going to do everything and we’re going to try everything to try to keep this little baby alive. And she’s wonderful. She’s a hundred percent fine now. So you look at that and you say, so some of the things that they would doing, the improved management that was beginning to happen even then, tell us a little bit about what’s happened since then. I mean, there is an incredible amount of advancement in this field.
Dr. John Oertle (13:03):
It’s just advancement because of surfactant therapy, which is something that the doctors give to babies to help them breathe and help those lungs open up. There’s been advancements in the ability of advanced nutrition and feeding therapies. There’s been advancements in all of these different dynamics to be able to help support the child throughout the course of the last 20 years. One of the biggest advancements that has actually been shown is giving the mom steroids. It’s called antenatal steroid utilization. And moms being able, that are threatened to have threatened deliveries early on in pregnancy when they actually give steroids prior to delivery. The actual data shows is that it helps to speed up that development giving the child a fighting chance. And so oftentimes it’s very safe for mom to be able to receive these antenatal steroids, but if they’re not being offered to mom, they feel like, again, that this is the most important thing that is able to be given.
(14:03):
If you can deliver those steroids prior to delivery, it gives the baby a fighting chance and actually can show that it can improve the survivability, it can improve the surviving rates of those children even if they are born early on. So being able to be given that opportunity and that option to moms who are in the fight to be able to save their child and giving them a fighting chance is a really important thing. I’ve been now involved in a number after my son was born and I’ve become kind of this expert. I’ve been working with a number of people across the country when they actually have situations my name is getting across as far as this goes, they called me and they say, can you help with these circumstances? I’ve had really even good, there was an example, this was about a year ago of twins that being threatened at the very early stages of viability and their doctors were not giving them the actual options to be able to fight for the child, specifically giving antenatal steroids.
(15:03):
And there’s really good, even Catholic doctors who are just will say, yes, go follow along what the doctors and the hospitals are doing because again, they’re likely going to be able to give the right advice. And I looked at the actual recommendations and they weren’t being given the actual latest in the data in this peer reviewed articles. And so we were able to actually help that mom giving her antenatal steroids. Now, unfortunately, one of the children did pass because it was twins. One of the children passed, but the other one was born and actually ended up surviving. And he is alive today and doing well. So again, this is where when you’re able to give those options, I sometimes say, if nothing was done, then guess what? That child would’ve passed. (Absolutely.) Both of the children would’ve died. (Absolutely.) And so this is where there’s a value to say one of ’em is alive and the mom and dad, now they know that they did everything that they could to fight for that child that did pass.
Molly Smith (15:56):
Yep, absolutely.
Dr. John Oertle (15:57):
And now there’s a baby in heaven that’s praying for ’em.
Molly Smith (15:59):
Yeah, absolutely. What a beautiful way to present that, Dr. John Oertle, because I think this is exactly what we’ve got. We’ve got to get back to that. One of the things that you mentioned in your article, and it was very interesting to me because you bring up a very good point about the fact that when there’s data showing or there’s testing showing that the child has a disability or may have a disability, you are arguing that when those parents get pressured to abort that child or allow the child, well, maybe just allow the child to die without giving them the need, the medical needs that they might need. It’s a real strong form of discrimination against those children against disabilities.
Dr. John Oertle (16:46):
It sure is. Yeah. We’re seeing this discrimination all the time, and it is, it’s when you are allowing your medical care to be given to one but not another because of it’s, it’s not dependent upon their dignity or they’re being judged as less human or less worth to be able to receive the care necessary. And so we see this and we actually see that’s one of these issues. I mean, one, yes, early on, these early gestation pregnancies is one of these threats, but specifically babies that are not wanted from the medical system that are being offered to be able to abort, they are not being given those kind of fighting options because of maybe disabilities as far as this goes, or chromosomal abnormalities that have been identified in early on in pregnancy. One advancements in technology is great, it’s wonderful, but sometimes when it’s weaponized in, what’s happening right now is when you, because you’re able to give the blood work that comes from mom these days, technology’s advanced where you can actually know the DNA of the child, even just from a blood test from mom.
(18:00):
And so that technology is great. This is wonderful technology. We utilize this technology and my cancer treatments in my practice here in Scottsdale, Arizona. But we use that technology and the technology is not the problem. But when the technology becomes weaponized to be able to make decisions or decisions that are anti-life- that’s a huge concern. And so we’re battling that all the time because I think most people want information, and information is not a bad thing, but if that information is being used to be able to coerce you to be able to make a decision on abortion or not receive treatment, then that’s really a problem. And we’re seeing this growth across the country regards for moms that just don’t have that data and that information.
Molly Smith (18:49):
And you highlight the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the ACOG, who are actually almost burying some of this stuff and encouraging people to choose anti-life to say, and if anybody corrects them in it, they get banned from their research magazines, et cetera. Wow. Wow.
Dr. John Oertle (19:14):
Yeah, that’s correct. Well, you see that again, one of these ACOG and these associations have so much power. This is what the culture thinks. It stands for the American College of Gynecologists and Obstetricians. And so this is where when you have organizations like this that you think that this is what was happening with a good hearted Catholic doctor as well. That’s a part of ACOG that says, well, just keep doing what the system is telling you. I don’t want to get involved. I don’t want to be just, the system is based upon research. And when you deep dive into it and you say, well, actually these pervasive cultural views of the culture of death that actually persists strongly in ACOG, this actually doesn’t help because you’re not actually having diversity of thought and diversity of opinions and being able to actually follow the data of being able to make sure that these children are receiving the utmost support and care that’s consistent with the data.
(20:13):
And so this is where, again, another raising of awareness that we need to make sure that we’re partnering with organizations and seeing the data and research from organizations that are, you can belong to ACOG. There’s nothing wrong with belonging to ACOG, and I know a lot of great doctors that do, but at the same time, it’s really important to also think for yourself that are able to actually say there is this general view in society of not wanting to fight for the life of these children. And as a doctor of conscience, I know that we can and we should. And a lot of it is given to the decision of the mom and dad to be able to make good decisions, those difficult choices. But we are here to be able to support these parents to fight for their child and fight for life. So partnering with organizations like the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, APLOG is a wonderful organization to belong to that actually does have a lot of this research that puts on great conferences all to be able to support the same dignity and values of life and being able to support obstetricians and gynecologists in this fight to be able to support parents to be able to make good decisions, lifesaving options for their patients or for their patients.
Molly Smith (21:25):
Absolutely. And of course, we are talking to, and I just realized, Dr. John, that I’ve been pronouncing your name incorrectly. It’s ERT Lee, isn’t it not?
Dr. John Oertle (21:36):
Well, Americanized, you’re actually pronouncing it well in the German right and Swiss German, but again, which I appreciate that, but Americanized. It is. It’s Dr. Oertle.
Molly Smith (21:46):
Oertle, exactly. So when you are looking for any information, look up Dr. John Oertle and it’s E-R-T-L-E-L-E real
Dr. John Oertle (21:54):
Quick. That’s a phonetic, that’s a phonetic way to say it. My name, it’s O-E-R-T-L-E.
Molly Smith (21:59):
There you go. There you go. So if you want to look up any information about him on the website, please do so. I will put up all his information on our website from the median.org. And again, I apologize for the incorrect pronunciation there, but the information is unbelievably wonderful. So thank you so much for all you’re doing, and it’s so great to know that Solidarity HealthShare has got somebody like you at the forefront of the organization taking care of the patients who need this kind of support. Really, Dr. John. I mean, I think this is so important. As you say, even some of the Catholic hospitals, Catholic doctors are not understanding what’s going on when it comes to these types of things. So this is a wonderful, wonderful way to be able to be sure that we’re going to get exactly what we need for our children in the womb, and I think this is great. Again, don’t miss, go to our website from the median.org, go and check out Solidarity Health Share because they are probably the best health share option that we can all have. Unbelievable, very, very principled follows all the Catholic principles. It’s just an amazing organization here, here, lots of positive things about them. So don’t miss out. Go and check it out and then contact them and let them know that you are interested in getting information about it. Thank you so much, Dr. John. We so appreciate all you’ve done.
Dr. John Oertle (23:20):
Molly, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.
Molly Smith (23:22):
Take care. God bless you lots. Bye-Bye. Thank you all for joining me this evening. As I say goodnight and God bless each and every one of you. I’d like to close with the words of the Holocaust survivor, Elie Wiesel. There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.
Announcer (23:42):
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Announcer #2 (24:22):
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