Solidarity HealthShare’s Chief Medical Officer, Dr. John Oertle, joins The BS Show to discuss new research suggesting that common respiratory infections—like the flu and COVID-19—may reactivate dormant breast cancer cells. He explains why the findings matter, the role of inflammation, and why patients should be proactive about follow-up after illness. Listen to the full interview or read the transcript below.
Bob Sansevere (00:00):
We are joined by Dr. John Oertle, the co-founder and chief medical officer for Solidarity Healthshare at solidarityhealthshare.org. Now, doctor, there is a interesting, and frankly it’s a little alarming report from a nature nature study that reveals common respiratory infections like influenza and COVID-19 can reactivate dormant breast cancer cells igniting metastatic growth within weeks. And this is a story you wrote and that is to me very alarming. However, as you read through the story, some calm comes over you because there are ways to address it, but it is concerning that the influenza and COVID could do this, but what it comes down to is being much more proactive than maybe people have been. And you have a background, certainly in oncology with the group that you work with. So just explain to people who have had issues with breast cancer, and even if they haven’t, they should follow up and be proactive if they’ve had the flu or COVID-19.
Dr. John Oertle (01:12):
Yeah, Bob, thank you so much and I’m grateful to be with you in your audience today. Yeah, so this is really, it is, you’re touching upon it that this is something where it came out in nature. Popular Peer Review journal article came out in nature, very reputable journal, but when you start to see this area, you want to be able to be proactive. Solidarity HealthShare, which is I’m the chief medical officer of shares into these proactive options. But where this really touched down upon is that when you started to be able to see that you’ve had breast cancer before and you had it removed and now you were in complete remission, even if it was a stage one and you had it removed and you were now in a complete remission state and you treated it, what this actual study showed is that if you came down with upper respiratory infection, say for instance we’re coming into COVID flu season, influenza one and two or A and B or SARS two COVID, what we started to see is that any type of upper respiratory infection, it started to develop a lot of inflammation and could start turning on dormant cancer cells that were seeded in the lungs.
Dr. John Oertle (02:26):
And this is where you had a higher risk of finding that there was a recurrence of those metastatic disease to the lungs after a upper respiratory infection. So what this means to me is that I’ve even seen just some of the data on even breast cancer recurrence. One, I think it’s important to raise this awareness that even if you’ve undergone full treatment, you’ve removed it even with an early stage breast cancer, you remove it with a lumpectomy or you get it radiated and you do therapies again, there still is, even if you do it all, there still is a 7% chance of recurrence. So this means that the cancer is already spread and it’s important that it’s seeded in a dormant state many times and this is something that chemotherapy doesn’t touch. But again, it’s important to have this data-driven approach so that way if you do, have you suffered with breast cancer, if there has been a treatment and it’s in remission, if you come down with a upper respiratory infection, really important to be able to get analyzed or meet with your doc in order to be able to make sure that it stays clear and it stays in remission.
Bob Sansevere (03:39):
Okay. Now here’s the question that comes off of that for me. Many times you call, you want to see your doctor unless it’s an absolute emergency. Well, they’ll send you to the emergency room. It could be weeks or more than a month. So if you’ve had or not enough doctors I think are aware of this, if they haven’t seen the nature study, so let’s say you have COVID or you have the flu, should you go to the, are hospitals able to do it? Or if your doctor can’t see you right away, you don’t want to waste time on this, you don’t want it to linger for a month or more, right? Mean, how do you impress upon them I need to be seen now Or will most oncologists, are they aware of it and they’ll make sure they or someone in their office sees you? What’s the best way to approach it I guess?
Dr. John Oertle (04:24):
Well, this is a very well one, Bob. You got to be an advocate for yourself out there because many times, you’re right, there’s not an efficient way or a system that really is putting the patient first and being able to move forward. I would say you have to be a good advocate for yourself. And so this is where being able to schedule an appointment, at least with your primary care doc to be able to discuss this study and to be able to run imaging to be able to evaluate so that you can actually make sure that it’s staying nipped in the bud and that you’re able to actually prevent it from again, growing and aggressively treating. It’s interesting that one of the things that you see is almost a biomarker that some, I call it gasoline for the forest fire. It’s a molecule called IL six, and this is a way that the immune system is responding to or creating an inflammation.
Dr. John Oertle (05:15):
When that’s happening with the actual infection, that molecule is starting to be able to pour gasoline on the forest fire. And so that’s starting to cause that trigger of growth. And so if you have that inflammation in the lungs after a breast cancer diagnosis, I do get concerned that if it’s lingering and you’re still having that cough or that lingering of symptoms, you do want to be able to get in and be an advocate for yourself, publish the study or print it off, let your doctor and discuss it in your either primary care or you’re treating oncologist to be able to make sure that things aren’t growing or worsening. If this has been your history.
Bob Sansevere (05:58):
Now this is my naivete coming out here, but let’s say I’ve had breast cancer. I go to my doctor, and by the way, men do get breast cancer.
Dr. John Oertle (06:05):
They do.
Bob Sansevere (06:06):
– And I call my doctor, I say, I had the flu or I had COVID. I want to be checked. Well will, if you don’t have a Solidarity and what’s their traditional insurance provider, could they deny these tests? There’s not enough basis to it or your doctor has to be, you have to be proactive and convince your doctor. But some of these doctors, it’s not like their friends. They may be a little obstinate and not wanting to do it, or would every doctor generally do it if you ask for it and make sure it’s covered.
Dr. John Oertle (06:36):
Bob, this is part of the medical insurance complex that we’re dealing with that I think a lot of Americans are feeling right now is that you’re not getting the kind of outcomes oversight and data-driven approach that is required and needed to be able to keep healthy and staying with best outcomes. And this is what we really push for with Solidarity HealthShare is how do we actually find the best data and technology, again, the data that’s coming out of these studies and implement it, and to be able to make sure that you and your doctor can choose for yourselves what is the best way to be able to stay healthy and treat according to the data and the science that’s coming on out on a regular basis. I always like to say that many times, these are therapies that will probably admit this overall insurance will eventually approve these things when it comes to maybe two years from now, five years from now, and it’ll be implemented into standard of practice or have doctors educated. My problem that I have with this though is that delayed care is denied care, and this is where you want to get in. You want to get in immediately and you want to have the best data and the science to be able to advocate for yourself with providers who are following the data and the science and your, again, solidarity health share that’s here to be able to support you so that you have this a part of your healthcare program. And so the members are able to share into that and you can get the care that you’re needing based upon the latest research that’s coming out.
Bob Sansevere (08:10):
Well, and I’m going to make turn into a little bit of a plug for Solidarity Health Share is unlike traditional healthcare, I mean, you’re not anywhere near as expensive as that is, and you are helping the people who are members. And I think it’s worth, if you’ve been frustrated with, we keep hearing about, we need to do away with Obamacare. Well, I think we do, but the model that you have and other health sharing is a good model that maybe the government should be looking at. And it’s worth looking into right now though, if you’re frustrated with your traditional healthcare, the way to do that, go to solidarityhealthcare.org and the number’s right there and just call and ask the questions that you feel are pertinent for you. And frankly, you and I were talking about this off the air doctor, that Solidarity will give a list of different clinics or groups around the country that they’ll bill directly.
Bob Sansevere (09:07):
And they have a good relationship with Solidarity already, but I think Chris Fadis, president, has talked about people have actually for major things, they have flown with the help of Solidarity telling ’em where to go. It’s cheaper to do that than maybe to go to place you’re going locally to have great quality care. So it’s absolutely worth looking into. And again, it’s Solidarity HealthShare at HealthShare, well solidarityhealthshare.org. And as you mentioned, you are one of the co-founders and the chief medical officer and you’re a great resource for people too. And I’m sure if one of your members needed to speak to you, you would make yourself available or I just put you on the spot with that.
Dr. John Oertle (09:48):
Yeah, no, we certainly do. And we’ve got programs when it comes to, okay, so what is the best recommendations? We’ve got care navigation programs to make sure that we’re finding those providers that are in line with your ethics values and the ability to be able to actually the care that you’re looking for. We’ve also got care coordination teams, so when tragedies do strike that, somebody’s with you along that process to be able to journey with you, hold your hand, say for instance, if Cancer does strike in one of our members, then we have our care coordinators that are able to actually make sure that they’re providing some of these resources and education or being able to help support you through dealing with the billing processes through providers. We know it’s a medical insurance complex. We’re in the place of these insurance companies and many times providers can be challenging to deal with it best. And so this is where we really are advocating for the standpoint of being able to make sure that we walk our members through these diseases and that they’re getting the kind of best healthcare that’s available to ’em and at the same time that we’re doing this together so that you’re not alone.
Bob Sansevere (10:54):
Well, doctor, thank you so much. We’ll take a quick break the BS Show’ll be right back.
