Recently, Solidarity HealthShare President sat down with Bob Sansevere from The BS Show to discuss price transparency and how our healthcare ministry is fighting for our Members. Read the transcript or listen to the interview below.
Bob Sansevere (00:00):
We are joined by Christopher Faddis, co-founder and president of the Nonprofit Healthcare Sharing Ministry Solidarity Health Share, which is an ethical, affordable alternative to traditional health insurance and is faithful to the moral teachings of the Catholic Church. Chris, I got to talk to you about a study that has come out and it’s from California. So I take that with a few grains of salt at times, but it’s a new survey by the California Healthcare Foundation. Californians are more worried about unexpected medical bills than any other expense, even housing. Two thirds of Californians say they worry about affordable or affording unexpected healthcare bills, 48% worried about paying their rent or mortgage, 47% worried about affording food. Now, I would say that’s not something that only California is dealing with. I would say healthcare is on the minds of many, many people. And certainly it’s something that I worry about as a parent because things getting outrageous.
(01:00):
And fortunately, we’re members of Solidaty HealthShare and you have always been there when we needed things to be taken care of. And so you’ve done a great job with that, but are you surprised by this study or is this something you would expect?
Chris Faddis (01:15):
No, I’m not surprised at all. I mean, I definitely think this is where people are focused right now. I mean, the bottom line is that, especially given how many surprise … Surprise is kind of the operative word here. Why is it a surprise at all? I mean, most of these people are paying for or someone is paying for them to have some sort of insurance coverage, and yet they don’t know what it’s going to cost. That makes no sense. I mean, this world of surprise billing and all of that is just ludicrous and something that we shouldn’t be dealing with. So no, I’m not surprised at all. I mean, I think people, it’s the fear of the unknown. Now, granted, I think oftentimes people maybe think things are going to be way more expensive than they are in their healthcare needs. And we hear that all the time like, “What if I have a $3 million bill?” Well, that’s not really that normal of a thing.
(02:06):
And actually before Obamacare removed all the limits in insurance, there was no such thing as bills over a million dollars, but then they removed all the limits. And so that caused higher billing. So I think at the end of the day, price transparency once again wins the game here. If people can know what things are going to cost, if we stop this game of hospitals being able to bill whatever they want and then sue people if they can’t make the payments on it or whatever, I think we don’t have this problem anymore. And it’s a big issue and it’s affecting, like you said, all Americans, this particular study was done in California, but it’s affecting all Americans.
Bob Sansevere (02:44):
Well, one of the problems, Chris, is, I mean, we go to the emergency room when it’s an emergency, but there are people, and generally there are people who, and I’m not knocking at them or it, but that are on Medicaid and they don’t worry about the bill. Instead of going to a doctor’s office, if it’s like a cold or they worry that they, whatever it is, let’s say you got a cough, they go right to the emergency room because it doesn’t come out of their pocket. And I think that’s a big part of it too. I think hospitals are trying to get back money that they’re not getting for these-
Chris Faddis (03:17):
That can be part of it. I mean, they try to make that more of the equation than it actually is, but you are right.
Bob Sansevere (03:23):
Well, but I’ve seen it.
Chris Faddis (03:23):
People misuse the ER big time. I mean, that’s a big issue that we have where people go to the ER for simple respiratory issues. And we have this kind of mindset that that’s the solution when it’s not. And ultimately, actually it’s probably … It’s not good for anyone in that equation, including the patient, because you do rack up higher bills.
Bob Sansevere (03:46):
And also you’re slowing care for people who desperately need it at an emergency room.
Chris Faddis (03:51):
Right, right.
Bob Sansevere (03:54):
And this is, again, I take it with some grains of salt, but I also don’t disbelieve it. This guy posted something, he did go to an emergency room. It was a $20,000 bill and he had canceled his insurance because he felt that the premiums and the monthly that he was paying and what he would have to pay, the deductible was too high. But he said he got it down from 20,000 to a little over 2,000 and he was happy to pay it because he saved money in the long run. I know that Solidarity does a great job of bringing down what these hospitals are charging and these insurance companies. Is that possible to bring it down to 10%? Is that stuff you have found with Solidarity, right? Oh yeah. But can an individual do it? You really have to know what you’re doing to pull out.
Chris Faddis (04:43):
You can do it. It definitely is hard. I mean, I don’t know that everyone … I don’t think most of the individuals are willing to do it, but yeah, I mean, you can definitely do it. It’s a costly … I mean, it’s a timely thing. I mean, it takes a lot of time and effort, but I mean, actually, in fact, there’s some great books out there telling you how to do it, but that’s what we do for our Members. I mean, that’s the goal is we understand that people are going to … Most people don’t want to do that on their own, so we do that for them. But yeah, getting it down to 10% of what the bill charges were is rather common from a hospital, especially not typically with doctor’s offices or surgical centers, their pricing’s a lot more reasonable, so you don’t see those swings, but we do see it in hospital billing quite a bit.
(05:26):
And again, that’s the issue. And we’re talking a bit, Bob, you mentioned this idea that people are using the ERs for their regular medical care. And what’s interesting about it is they often, you hear that same language like, “Well, if people weren’t using the ER, then hospitals would be more affordable.” But at the same time, I think about when my daughter was in the children’s hospital here in Phoenix because she had a ruptured appendix, which was the reason to go to children’s hospitals.
Bob Sansevere (05:53):
Well, that’s a legitimate reason. Absolutely.
Chris Faddis (05:53):
But then walking through at night to go to the car and seeing the 400 people in the waiting room of the ER, and I thought about it and I thought most of them just had colds and whatever, right? (Yeah.) But I thought about it. And the children’s hospital actively markets themselves as the only solution if your child is sick. So at the same time, there’s certainly a level where hospitals are doing this because something that could have been billed $300 at an urgent care at your doctor’s office, they’re going to get it up to $3,000 and they’re going to get that swing. And so there is a level here where we’re playing this game of the hospitals are definitely benefiting from that as well. So again, I think we do, if you do end up in the ER, we definitely encourage you to make sure that you are negotiating down those bills and don’t pay that full bill because it is absolutely more expensive than what it should be.
Bob Sansevere (06:48):
Have you found that when people go to an ER and have Solidarity HealthShare and they say that and they explain what it is, do you see them starting with a lower price or are they jacking it up and then letting you-
Chris Faddis (07:01):
No, they’ll always bill that higher price. Yeah. They will. They’ll offer the cash pay typically, but yeah, they’ll always start with that higher price.
Bob Sansevere (07:08):
And typically, what is the cash pay price? How much cheaper is it? It’s not like 10% of the total bill because I know that your group, you do it and also you have a third party that works with you as well, has done a great job of bringing prices down. I saw something last week and I just took a look for it and I couldn’t find it, but the amount of money that members of Solidarity were charged and then the amount of money that Solidarity negotiated down, it’s a staggering number what you and your staff and people have been able to do to save Members money and Solidarity money.
Chris Faddis (07:45):
Yeah.
Bob Sansevere (07:46):
And that’s something that, I mean, has it been like that from the beginning or has it been a lot of learning as time goes on?
Chris Faddis (07:53):
Yeah, it’s always been around the 60% range, but we’ve definitely performed better over the last few years, I think. But again, it is the learning, right? It’s having the right data and knowing how to do it. And then we also know how to handle doing it on the front end as much as we can. So when it comes to surgeries and things, if they’re pre-planned, we’re able to have a little more control over that process, which is good. So yeah, I think we’re learning for sure and it’s better. But yeah, overall, I think it’s 64% since we started that we’ve saved and we’ve had over $500 million of medical bills come through for our Members. So that’s quite a bit.
Bob Sansevere (08:33):
Now you’ve been around about a decade, right?
Chris Faddis (08:36):
Yeah, this year will be a decade ago since we launched this Solidarity again.
Bob Sansevere (08:40):
But health sharing, it’s been around longer than that than you have been here, but not by a great amount, but have you noticed or you’re watching trends, are you getting more, you and other health sharing groups getting more respect from hospitals and they’re not jacking it through the roof, they’re showing that, you know what, these people are going to pay, they’re going to be legitimate. Let’s not start off with a ridiculous amount or are they still giving you ridiculous amounts? Yeah,
Chris Faddis (09:08):
They’re still giving us ridiculous amounts, but we are finding our way to better negotiation with them. The problem is these hospitals change CFOs like you wouldn’t believe.
Bob Sansevere (09:16):
Oh yeah.
Chris Faddis (09:17):
So it’s a constant game. You think you’re doing well with a certain hospital system, and then next thing you know, they’ve changed the rules again. But I think they’re more likely to talk to us depending … We’ve gotten better at knowing who we’ve got to talk to and getting the ball rolling. But yeah, it’s definitely, it’s a learning curve because like I said, we have a hospital system here in Arizona that for two years straight, we’ve had a really good system with them. It’s worked really well. And then boom, they changed CFOs and it’s all off the page.
Bob Sansevere (09:47):
That’s incredible that they allow that.
Chris Faddis (09:48):
Yeah, it’s really frustrating, but these people have these revenue cycle conferences, what they call them, where they basically sit there and talk about how to get more billing. And so every time something changes with multiple hospital systems, I know they all went to the same revenue cycle billing conference.
Bob Sansevere (10:05):
Yeah. No, it’s unfortunate. Well, I wanted to mention-
Chris Faddis (10:08):
Now, good things are coming. I mean, they’re going to enforce these price transparency rules. HHS and CMS have put out some really strong stuff and they’re saying they’re actually going to create a pricing engine website that the US government’s going to have, or you can go and see all the prices at the local hospitals and things. So there’s good things coming, Bob, for this, and I think consumers are going to benefit.
Bob Sansevere (10:31):
That would be great. And we’re going to talk more about that in other segments, but Solidarity HealthShare, SolidarityHealthShare.org. Check it out. Great alternative to traditional healthcare. Chris Faddis, co-founder and president of Solidarity HealthShare. Thanks, Chris. Take a quick break. The BS Show‘ll be right back.